Collateral Damage

Karen Kenney: 00:00:01

Hey you guys, welcome to the Karen Kenny show. I'm super duper excited to be here with you today. And this episode is probably going to be kind of short. And for no other reason other than I don't have a ton to say in this moment about it. But I did want to talk about this. So I'm going to this episode is called, as you can see from the title, collateral damage, collateral damage. And I always like to obviously give you a little story, a little little backstory of how something came to be, why I'm talking about it, why it matters, and then how maybe we can apply the spiritual concept or whatever, in your own life. So the term collateral damage, I'm going to give you a little bit of a history lesson first, just where it kind of came from where that that term was coined, and then apply it to the story that I wanted to tell you today. So from Wikipedia, I went to Wikipedia. Well, no, I mean, Google takes me wherever it takes me right. But the I just want to be clear, I always like to cite my sources. So I'm looking at Wikipedia, I was thinking about this phrase, collateral damage, and the term collateral damage they say likely originated as a euphemism. Ufan is a euphemism, jeez, euphemism during the Vietnam War, and it referred to friendly, quote, unquote friendly fire, or two, the intentional killing of non combatants and destruction of their property. So the oldest known usage of this term collateral damage in this context as it applies to war, it occurred apparently in an article that was written by a guy TC Schelling in May of 1961. So collateral damage, in terms of how they apply it to war, is any death, or injury or other damage that's inflicted, that's an incidental result of an activity. And although it was originally coined in military operations, it now often gets used a lot of times outside of non military contexts. I think it's also interesting to point out that a lot of people kind of took, I don't know, I don't want to say offense, but pushback about just kind of using a phrase like that collateral damage to talk about people who have been killed, to talk about innocent people and villages and villages, and children and stuff like that they like. And a lot of times these words, these phrases are coined or designed, I believe, right? To keep people from having to actually think about the deep personal tragedy, and brutality and violence and loss that gets inflicted in something like war. So we use a word like, oh, it was just collateral damage. Like, yeah, we were trying to blow up this thing. And we'll pick the pick where the United States have dropped bombs and done things. And unfortunately, the collateral damage was this, this, this and this, because it's a little bit easier, and less guilt provoking, to the psychology of people to say, collateral damage, rather than like an 842 civilians were killed, you know what I mean? So I thought it was important to if I'm going to use that word collateral damage to acknowledge where it came from, and what it stands for. But going back to even though it was originally coined for use in, you know, military context, and military language, it has also now become into the vernacular, in a larger sense. And so this is how I want to talk about it. So here's the little story pot. Okay. So I bumped into somebody recently in a public place, so I hadn't seen in years. And without going into too many details, or really any details, all I really want to say is that this was a person who when I would talk about them, I would often say it's so unfortunate because they ended up becoming collateral damage in this relationship. Okay, so we're gonna move away from this concept of collateral damage in reference to war, and we're gonna now start talking about it in reference to relationships. And the way that this way is often talked about is like collateral damage and relationships is like, the often unspoken or unseen or unexpected emotional harm. That can result when there's like a divorce or there's a conflict or or there's a breakup, or in a situation maybe when sides have been chosen. Right. So the individuals who are usually, like directly involved in the thing, they're not the only ones who get affected by the words, the actions, the behaviors, the choices, right? They're not the only ones, you know, when there's like a. I know because when I first moved to California, there was a massive fucking earthquake. And I was like, Whoa, I had never experienced an earthquake being an East Coast kid. And I certainly was not aware of the, the effect physically and psychologically of aftershocks of of, you know, what do you call it? The earthquake, right. And we're back hello, my brain took a vacation for a split second. So aftershocks, right this is kind of what collateral damage can be like in relationships is that it's not just the people in the immediate relationship that are affected, this thing exponentially kind of rolls out and affects the extended circles of friends or families or workplaces or whatever. And so when we talk about collateral damage in relationships, it's more talking about like, the unintended negative consequences that happen, or that can result from an action that we take, or a choice that we make, or maybe sometimes even something that we say and these consequences, you know what, like, when you drop like that great image, like when you drop a pebble, like into a lake, and those little water ripples just kind of like go out and out and out and out and they get bigger, right? They get bigger and wider as it kind of goes out. So sometimes our personal choices often affect partners, our Sweeties, our loved ones, your kids, your extended extended family members, even your animals, right. So just even in the case of let's say, a divorce, no a divorce when it's just to, you know, people who are going to go back to being single, right? Usually, those are the two prime people who are there, even if it's just a breakup, if you're not married, right, let's start there. So let's just say you're dating somebody, you've been together for a while, haven't moved in or anything like that, you'd have your own places. And when you break up, like oftentimes, there's like an effect, but you two are usually the main ones. And remember, I always say there are exceptions to every rule, there are nuances to every rule, but I'm just trying to give some working examples, right? Then maybe you have a couple who's gotten married, and your families have become intertwined. And you know, love your mother in law, or you you love your father in law, or you think your brother in law or sister in law is like the best and you know, all your friends become his friends or her friends and vice versa. And then when there's a divorce or a separation or the relationship ends, you ended up not being the only one that is affected. Right. Now, if you expand that even more, and you think about people who maybe have children, people who have furry kids, you know, a lot of times in divorces, the kids are the ones who in a lot of ways we all know I mean Child child have multiple divorces over here, many of you double Amen hands, if you know what I'm talking about, if you survive the divorce in your immediate family, you know how fucking weird it can get. And you know that there can be sometimes collateral damage, meaning the kids often pay the price for the parents.

Karen Kenney: 00:08:42

I don't want to I'm not judging anybody. So but maybe the parents have a lack of communication. Maybe the parents have, there was something in the marriage that where it broke down addiction or gambling or cheating or filling, you know, mental illness, fill in the blank, whatever it could be, you know, and a lot of times the animals too, right? You know, you have a couple that's been together, they get a dog together or a cat together, they both fall in love with it. Well, I mean, some couples will share dogs, but most don't, right? It's like, you're coming with me. And it can be really weird for an animal to not see the other person, it can be really obviously challenging for children to now maybe have to have two homes, or now your other person, your dad or your mom or whoever just moves away. Right? And even if even if the people don't get married, right, maybe, maybe your mom is a single mom, but she has a boyfriend for like 678 years during your developmental period when you're really really developing right as a young kid, and then that person because they have a falling out like you end up being collateral damage and so does that relationship with the other person. And the reason why I'm thinking about this is coming back to this story is that I bumped into somebody who ended up becoming mean collateral damage and a situation or relationship of mine. And the thing is, is that, you know, I'm the kind of person like I love a happy ending, like I am a sucker for a happy ending, like, give me a happy ending in a book in a movie and show like, any day, and even if it doesn't, even if it's not like everybody's walking, I just like a conclusion, right? Like I like, but ideally, I'm that kid, right? Like, I want the happy ending, it makes my heart it gives me a sense of security and safety. It makes me happy for the characters, because characters become very real for me, right? I'm really, I'm really good at getting lost in a book or getting lost in a movie, especially when it's character driven. And I always want that happy ending, but here in like adult land here in you know, quote, unquote, reality small, I would, I would say small reality. Things don't always end that way. Right? There's no meat tied up in a bow. And sometimes a friendship ends. And you know, the person, you know, how do I say this? Let's say you're friends with a couple, right? And one of those people for whatever reason you stopped being friends with? And what are you going to do what that other person is now, usually going to end up as collateral damage, because what are they going to do, they're going to continue to keep their friendship with you alive, when they're their partner, and their best friend isn't speaking to you, or you're no longer on good terms, or it can get really fucking weird is what I'm trying to say. And it can be really sad. Because a lot of times, you don't have a problem with the other person, you don't have a communication problem, you don't have a relational problem. In fact, you might really love that person. And in fact, there was a time when maybe you love them both, right? And it was like, Okay, this is something I really, I'm so happy that we have this friendship, or this family or whatever the thing is, and then a time comes, when it's time for that thing to end. And you might not be able to explain it, you might not be able to have other people understand it. And I know, I know, many of you are listening to this right now. And double Amen, handing you are shaking your head. Yeah, so you are nodding your head, and you know what I'm fucking talking about. And it can be so sad, and so painful and so difficult. And it's also a challenging thing. Because even if you wanted to explain yourself, right, so I bumped into this person, I hadn't seen them, it was not the appropriate time to say anything. You know, sometimes you might be in a public place, or they're with a new partner, or they're with their children, or somebody's in a rush, or whatever the thing is, and it's like, this is just not the time and the place to bring this up. And you're thinking, I might never get another chance, right, I this, this, this just might have to be one of those things, that in this lifetime, I have to let go. And I have to just say the cards are falling where they are. And sometimes it can be hard, because to explain yourself, you know, would be harmful? You know, there's a reason why, you know, I have a lot of different thoughts about 12 Step programs. But one of the steps in AAA is to make amends, right. And I may not get the wording exactly right, I would I'm not I'm not in any AAA, although I'm very familiar with the program. But it's like to make amends and less to do so would cause more harm. And there are times when you know, to explain yourself or to say anything, you're just gonna end up insulting the other person's partner, right? Like, it's not like you can't explain yourself, because to do so would actually not be loving or kind, even if it's honest, even if it's honest, it may not be the most loving, or the most kind thing to say or to do. So sometimes you gotta kind of like, you just gotta, you just gotta as I would say, just got the cards have fallen, where they've fallen, and you can't always stand them back up. And you might not get a chance to explain yourself, you might not get a chance to a lot of it, whether it's explaining yourself or making amends or saying you're sorry, or trying to reach a mutual understanding, right, sometimes a person will pass away, right, somebody who was part of the collateral damage, right? And I know in some cases, you don't always know all the information. You know, I think back as I'm writing my memoir and writing, you know, this book, is that there are certain things I'm like, I may never know the answer to that. Right. And, and I know a lot of people who never knew their parents, right, like maybe they never knew their dad or they never knew their mom. Well Whatever, there was a divorce and one of them moved away. So the other parent was the primary caretaker, you know, in a story can be told something like, you know, oh, they were a deadbeat, or they just didn't love you, or they abandon us and like, Fuck them. And then later on, you find out oh, that person was actually sending birthday cards and writing letters and, and your, your parent who you were living with, was not emotionally able to be mature enough to overcome their own hurt, to allow that relationship to continue or to survive or to thrive, right. And there's so many layers to all of this. But it really got me thinking to just about the collateral damage. And I just wanted I have in this is what's so funny about this, I love a happy ending. But this episode doesn't actually end with this super happy ending. What it really ends with is acceptance, is it just saying I just wanted to put it out there in case somebody was going through this, or somebody experienced this, that sometimes you know, when we let go or something ends, it doesn't get wrapped up in a neat little bow. And two things can be true at once, I might do a whole podcast about that about how the importance of being able to hold two things is true at the same time. And it can be that I love this person, and I have to let them go. Or I had a really good reason for doing what I did. And I can't ever tell you why. Right. And sometimes we're just going to be because this being human is a fucking ongoing problem. Hence why I do the work that I do to help people to navigate this human experience. You know, to learn how to better navigate being human, and to forgive our humanity and clumsiness and to gather tools for being getting better at giving and receiving love, but also to remember our divinity, that underneath all the faults and all the character defects and all the places we may have blown it that there is a divine spark that is eternal and is perfect and is nothing but love. And sometimes, you know, in relationships, it gets messy. You always say to people who say like, I'm a mess, I'm like, You're not a mess. But this being human experience gets messy. And sometimes there is unintended negative consequences. Now,

Karen Kenney: 00:17:26

I'm talking about how you can't always resolve it. But let's say that there is an opportunity to resolve it, I just wanted to share a couple of things that might be really helpful, I kind of call all a lot of these the ORs. Right. So in order to repair when there has been some collateral damage, if you get the opportunity if the opportunity, if it makes sense, if it will be kind, if it will be compassionate, if the communication can happen at the right time, then the first step of repair, the first step of repair, especially if you have been the one to initiate even if it was unintentionally, to cause the harm or to cause the split or the break or the upset or whatever the the first step of the repair is you've got to take responsibility for your actions, you've got to take responsibility for your actions, and to recognize the harm that has been done. Like that's one of the biggest things when you are going to acknowledge your role in something, if you're going to offer restitution or reparations, or apologize or make amends or whatever. It doesn't just stop going I'm sorry, that's not an apology, you got to take responsibility. You got to recognize that harm that's been done. And also it's it goes a long way to name it. Like to really bear witness to what your choice or what your actions did acknowledge your role before you offer restitution or reparations. And then I would say another thing that another step to take right and these might not depends on the order, right? But this is just how my brain works, is you want to really communicate openly and honestly but with compassion, right? So really just offering, offering your role offering your responsibility, you know, showing that you recognize the harm that's been done acknowledging it apologizing for it. And then really listening, really bearing witness compassionately, right and listen to the other person's concerns and feelings that's really important, open, honest, compassionate, empathetic, right empathetic communication. And this is where the next one like forgiveness can go, oh wicked long ways. And I always say that, you know, nobody else gets to determine for you when you're ready to forgive. Or if you should forgive that is between you and God that is between you and the God of your own understanding that is between you and spirit you and the divine you in the universe. Um, this is a practice of like, looking beyond the the thing that you think the person did and trying to see their innocence trying to see that divine spark in them. Not saying it's easy, not saying it's always appropriate or right for everybody in that moment, everybody gets to decide for themselves, but really doing your best to let go of any like anger or any resentment towards the person. And doing your best if you are going to choose to forgive to move forward with a positive attitude. Again, not saying it's easy, but as they say, in A Course in Miracles, forgiveness is the key to happiness. And I think it can be right I think it powerfully can be. And again, nobody else gets to determine for you when and if you are ready, or if it's appropriate, you get to decide that. And then the last hour would be that like rebuilding trust, just moving towards healing. And so you know, this, this takes a lot of things you can't I always, always say the first step of changing anything is awareness, you gotta have awareness and clarity, you got to know that something's fucking wrong, and how you know, then that it needs fixing that you need to change it or transmute it or alchemize it. So awareness, and empathy and compassion, and communication, and understanding and good boundaries, so that that collateral damage does not happen again. And at the very, at the very end of all that if you can't work it out between yourselves, therapy can be really helpful. Getting some coaching, getting some support a support group, whatever it is, can be really helpful. But really, what I wanted to say is that, you know, the damage that happens in collateral damage it can take, can take so many different forms, depending on the situation, anything from just misunderstandings, to hurt feelings to like total conflict. And then sometimes, this permanent damage, and that's kind of what I was hinting at is that sometimes, for your own safety, for your own wellbeing for doing what is right sometimes to do the right thing does not mean it's going to be the comfortable thing does not does not mean that it's going to be the thing that everybody who is on the fringes kind of understands, sometimes there's going to be lasting damage, and it's unfortunate, and collateral damage. You know, is it can be painful, you know, when I bumped into this person, like I just felt my hat go like, Oh my God, my natural instinct was to like, hug them and be like, I was so happy to see them. And I could tell it was just like cognitive dissonance. It was like, Oh, my God, like, what do I do with this, right? Because the problem wasn't ever between me and that person. It was between me and another person. And it can be just really challenging sometimes when you've had to make a choice, that maybe not everybody is going to understand and you might not have the opportunity to explain, even if it was the right thing at that time. And it doesn't mean you have to go on like I don't walk around with malice in my heart. I wish everybody so much success and happiness and health and love and well being. And there are just times when relationships and friendships and working relationships, places where you used to visit habits you used to have whatever it is things, things come to an end. And not everybody is going to get the memo and not everybody is going to understand. So the work is for us to get comfortable in our own skin to get comfortable in our own knowing to get comfortable and confident in our own choices. And knowing why you do what you do, knowing why you did what you did. And I'm not saying this to assuage, you know, like, you know, guilt or responsibility or whatever. But this is part of the human experience is that it doesn't always end up in a happy little ending. But just because it's not a quote unquote happy little ending doesn't mean that all parties can't move forward, finding their own happiness, you know, without being involved with each other anymore. And I wish that for everybody, you know, happiness and peace is our birthright. It is our birthright. And it's one of the reasons why that I do the work that I do is to help people return to that place return to love return home to themselves return to the knowing that their happiness and their inner peace is not only their own responsibility and their own, you know? Yeah, for lack of a better word, their responsibility, but it's also their birthright. And I want that for everybody. So yeah, I was just thinking about this. I don't like I say I don't have any way to wrap put up in a neat little bow except to say that sometimes these things happen and, and it can be hard. And if you're going through something like that, where you're feeling maybe I don't know, maybe in your situation, again, whether it's the ending of something, or the beginning of something else, and other people just don't understand, hopefully you have at least one person in your life, who who can listen, who gets you who understand your reasoning, and why you did what you did and why you do what you do. And that they understand your intention, and they understand your heart and who you really are. And even like, you know, what's that old saying?

Karen Kenney: 00:25:45

I can't, I can't remember. It doesn't matter. It doesn't matter. So anyways, and I'm back. So coming back to this thing, right collateral damage, sometimes we end up as collateral damage, I have ended up as collateral damage many times in my life. And no doubt, I have also caused collateral damage. And, again, this is just a part of being alive and being on the planet just being here. Sometimes, you just being here, sometimes it's going to cause it's going to cause harm, it's going to cause damage. And the key for me though, is to be aware of it is to not just walk around, like be like leaving a wake of destruction in your path. But knowing that with with great responsibility, that great responsibility of when you enter in relationships with people, that it doesn't always end the way that everybody envisioned in the beginning, even when you just look at the divorce rate, right? It's like nobody, most people, I would say, most people again, there's always exceptions to every rule. Nobody's really going to the altar thinking like, oh, yeah, three years, we're gonna be divorced, Oh, yeah. After a certain amount of time, we're just gonna get sick of each other or whatever. But here's the thing. I also don't believe that success in a relationship or a friendship or whatever is determined by how long you stay together, I think you can have very powerful and fruitful and impactful in meaningful relationships that will stay with you forever, even if you don't stay in close proximity to each other. In a course, in miracles, we call it like the three levels of learning are the three levels of teaching are the three levels, I sometimes say of relationships. So I just don't buy into like, yeah, of course, when you get married, you have that dream of that fantasy that we're gonna grow old together. And Won't that be nice and companionship and all that. And sometimes it's just not how it goes. But it's still like, was an important and impactful and it was meant to be. And it was also meant to end. And sometimes that can be a beautiful thing as well. So as always, on this show, I'm not telling you what to think I'm inviting you just to think and to expand our consciousness and expand our point of view, and to maybe be willing to look at things in a new way. So I hope, something that I shared today, even though it was a little bit more of a, like a personal approach, that it landed for you also, that's something that I shared from my hat also landed in yours, it is always my hope and my desire that it is helpful to you that it doesn't feel like a waste of time, Holy Jesus, I hope not. And that it was valuable in some way that you learned something or thought differently or thought about something. Or maybe it initiates a conversation you've been needing to have with somebody or maybe it's something, this is something that you share with a friend who maybe is going through a thing. Because I know how hard it can be trust me, I know how hard it can be when sometimes you have to make a decision. And you know, people don't understand or your kids don't understand, and it can just like, feel really fucking shitty, even though you know that, like, you know, it might take months, it may take years. But at some point, maybe maybe other people will understand if there's ever an opportunity, but also can we be comfortable with the fact that sometimes other people are just going to end up not just oh quote unquote, becoming collateral damage, they might in turn, stop loving you or stop liking you. And that is just the facts, Jack, it happens. And this is why having like a strong spiritual practice or having you know, a great sense of self, knowing who you are and to whom you belong. Having a daily a DSP, a daily spiritual practice, and really installing those internal stabilizers can be so important. So you guys from my heart to yours. I love you. I hope you're having a fantastic day wherever you are right now. Thank you so much for tuning in. And if this is attend to time in your life, if you're experiencing some collateral damage, or maybe you're causing some collateral damage, just know Without I'm thinking of you and I'm sending you lots of love and also lots of compassion and may you navigate it with compassion towards yourself and whoever else is involved. So wherever you go in the world you guys leave yourself the place the animals, the people the planet better than how you found it. Wherever you go, may your presence have been a blessing by