FINDING THE NEW RIGHT DISTANCE

Karen Kenney: 00:00:00

It's the Karen Kenney show. Hey you guys,

Karen Kenney: 00:00:04

welcome to the Karen Kenney show. Okay, I'm just gonna give

Karen Kenney: 00:00:08

it to you straight. Oh, my God, I'm just gonna give it to you

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straight, and I'm gonna give it to you real. So I've been having

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a lot of conversations lately with people about situations in

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their life, about relationships, about communication,

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communication that was given, communication that was received,

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communication that never happened but should have, etc,

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etc, etc. You know, this is just one of the hardest things about

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being human, and that is other humans, right? People be

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peopling. So back in 2020 when I first started this sucker, the

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Karen Kenney show, I did an episode, I think it was episode

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53 and I called it finding the right distance. And this is

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going to be like finding the right distance part too, or

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finding the new right distance or something. I don't know what

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I'm going to call this, but I want to just, and I'm going to

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try to keep this one short. It might not be sweet, though this

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is what I want to say. So there's a time when I used to

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always say, sometimes you just have to love people from a

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distance. And you have probably heard this phrase before, right?

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And it kind of means this idea that sometimes when we're too up

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close and personal with people, and I'm holding up my hands,

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right, and my hands like, maybe there's, like, I don't know, a

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half an inch or so, like, between them, right? My palms

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are facing each other. And sometimes when we're in too

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close of a proximity to people, whether that's physically,

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emotionally, whatever damage is going to be done, because one or

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both of those people do not have interpersonal relationship

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skills, they do not have emotional intelligence, they do

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not have a spiritual toolkit. They do not have a self

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development toolbox. They were never taught whatever the excuse

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is, whatever the reason is, and you've heard me say it 1000

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times, that trauma explains a lot of things, but it doesn't

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excuse them all. There comes a time in our life when each of us

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must be responsible for the way that we are speaking, the way

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that we are talking to ourselves and each other, the way that we

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are acting, the way that we are showing up or not showing up,

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the choices we're making, what we're thinking, saying, doing,

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believing, our behaviors, etc. There comes a point where we can

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look at our lives and we can say, well, I'm only like this

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because they did x, y and z, because my parents were like

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this. Or now, I'm not talking about systemic systems of racism

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or misogyny or, you know, Semitism or abuse. I'm not

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talking about that. I'm just saying like, one to one

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interpersonal relationships, whether that's with the sibling,

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whether that's with a parent, whether that's with a sweetie,

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whether that's with a friend, whatever it is, there will often

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come a time in the relationship when one of the people or both

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have to really look at, are we better together or apart? Are we

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better? Do we bring out the best in each other at this distance?

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And again, I'm holding my hands not like two inches apart or

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this distance, and I've got them pretty far away from each other,

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like a foot and a half. Okay, so nobody can really determine for

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you what the right distance is. And what I find so fascinating

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these days is that there's a whole generation, a younger

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generation of, I say kids, right? They're not really kids,

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like people in their 30s, maybe sometimes even up into that.

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Maybe it's even in their 20s, 30s, early 40s, whatever, who

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are deciding to go what they call no contact, like no

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contact, with their families and people are just horrified by

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this. The older generations are like, oh, you know, family,

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blood is sicker than water,

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and I'm able to kind of see it from both points of view. I

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think there are times when a conversation could be had and

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maybe healing could happen. It's not for me to say when somebody

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should or shouldn't apologize, or should or shouldn't forgive

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or whatever. That's an individual case by case basis,

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and it's a very personal decision, and people have to

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decide for themselves. But I can see why sometimes there is an

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argument to at least attempt to try and have a conversation and

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have reconciliation and allow the possibility that healing can

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happen, but there are just going to be other times people, oh my

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god, where other humans do not have the capacity to own their

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shit. They do not have the capacity to see from a different

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perspective, to see how somebody else might be feeling. Feeling.

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And one of the things that I hear a lot from the younger

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generations is that when I try to talk to my parents or my

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whoever right about what what my childhood felt like, or what I

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felt like or what my experience was, they defend, they refuse.

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They make excuses. They just say, you know, and this is, I

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hear this a lot about, like, Gen X kids, which is me, I'm a Gen X

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kid, right? Is that because we were the original latch key

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kids, right? We were the original ones left home alone

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and highly unsupervised and wildly feral, and we had to

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figure everything out for ourselves, etc, etc, etc. A lot

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of times, our story is we had it way worse than you. You don't

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know what it's like. So a kid will come to a parent and start

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to say, this is how I felt, this is what it was like to be your

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kid. This is what the environment was like at home.

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These are what my feelings were, or how I felt. And the parent

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immediately starts going into storytelling and making excuses

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and saying, Well, you don't know how hot I had it, and you don't

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know what I was trying to do, and I poured my blood, sweat and

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tears and trying to make a home for you, and I didn't even have

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one. Blah, blah. And what's missing there is a compassionate

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witness and an unshaming Witness and a loving witness to just

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acknowledge what the kid is feeling. And there are going to

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be times why I'm saying all this is there are going to be times

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when maybe no contact is not only going to be what they

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choose, but for some people, it might be the safest and best

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result, because it feels like you're beating your head against

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a wall. Because no matter what you say, your feelings don't get

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acknowledged. Your feelings don't get recognized. You are

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not seen, you are not heard, and what you feel doesn't matter.

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And in fact, you're just going to keep getting more excuses,

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and I keep going back to that thing, right? Trauma can explain

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a lot of things. Yes, you went through these things. Yes, these

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things happen. And yes, that was really hard, meaning the Gen X

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kid, yeah, Gen X is, we had it kind of rough, and it doesn't

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excuse us from what we are not doing now as adults or as

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parents or whatever, right? And so when I remember, when I'll

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just kind of point back to this, when I first I used to say, you

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could, you can love, you should. Sometimes you need to love

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people from a distance, because that's what's safest, right? Why

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keep putting yourself in an environment or in a relationship

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with another person where they don't respect you and they have

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nothing but contempt for you and they're not kind to you, and why

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do you think I've been told this many times in my life, right?

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What did you expect you knew who you were dealing with, right?

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And that's something slightly different about me because, and

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I'll get into that in a minute, but here's my whole point. So I

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used to say, sometimes you need to love people from a distance.

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And then my friend Marianne C once said,

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sometimes it's about finding the right distance. It's not just

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loving them from a distance, it's about finding that right

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distance, right whether again and I'm bringing my hands

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together and in twining my fingers, sometimes that's the

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right distance. You're really close, you're really intimate,

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you're really vulnerable with each other. It's a balanced

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relationship. It's a healthy relationship. It feels really

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good. And whether that's you know, a sweetie, a lover, a

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friend, a sibling, family member, whatever, sometimes the

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right distances, you guys are all up in each other's business

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in the best way, right? It's a good thing. Sometimes the best

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distance is there's a little gap between you, right? And maybe

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you just talk on the phone on Sunday nights or whatever it is,

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and then the distance can go out to the to like XFINITY, right,

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which is where you never talk again. You're just out of each

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other's life, or until one of you finally dies, or whatever

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the situation is, and sometimes that distance will be

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negotiable. Sometimes you'll move closer towards one another.

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Sometimes you have to move farther apart. And this can be

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very prevalent when, let's say one of you is, you know, has

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substance abuse disorder, or one of you is an alcoholic, or one

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of you is, you know, you know, stealing money from people to,

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like, get their next fix, or somebody like, whatever, they're

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not safe to be around. So they steal from you. They harm you.

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You're totally codependent together. Whatever it is,

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sometimes it's going to fluctuate, and sometimes those

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distances will be, oh, you know, you got your act together.

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You're making amends, you're trying to get your life

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together. Great. We're really close. And then if somebody

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like, you know, does something and it betrays a trust, or

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breaks a friendship, or whatever happens, you know, whatever lie,

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steals, whatever harms you, right, then that distance might

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go wide again. And I think it's good that we stay flexible. I

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think it's good for us to not just like draw lines in the sand

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and be wicked rigid. But there might be times when that's what

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the appropriate response is, is that you cross a line in a

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boundary with me or my kids or something that I just don't feel

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safe around you. I don't think this is healthy or whatever it

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is. And again, we may not always agree with other people's

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distances. We might not always see it from their perspective.

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Or think it's the right response, especially if you feel

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like you're the one that's being sent to Siberia to never be

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heard from again or whatever. But most people, you know, this

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is the thing. I was doing a team leadership thing today, and I

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was I talked, I talked to a team of people, and I was talking

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about self leadership and communication, and one of the

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ways that, or the reasons why I see so many people having to

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choose new distances, is because there is a breakdown in

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communication. Either they don't know how to say what they say,

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so they just suck it up and stuff it down, and the

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relationship kind of implodes, or just slowly fades away or

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drifts off into the sunset and everybody just lets it go away.

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Or sometimes, you know, the communication style is

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combative, and somebody gets their feelings hurt and they're

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like, fuck you. I'm done. I'm not dealing with this anymore.

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Sometimes they try to speak and communicate their needs or what

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they're feeling, and they are met with defensiveness and they

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don't feel heard. I mean, there's 1000 ways, but a lot of

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times this whole, you know, finding the right distance,

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the reason why people are looking for new distances in the

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first place is because there's been some kind of communication

Karen Kenney: 00:11:12

breakdown, and they just believe sometimes that there is no point

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in communicating what they feel and what they think, because you

Karen Kenney: 00:11:18

are not going to be able to handle it or respond, or you're

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going to react in a particular way, or you're just going to

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throw it back in their face, right? So learning how to

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communicate well, you know, I think I recently did a podcast

Karen Kenney: 00:11:30

about this is so so, so important. But this little

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episode, this quick little episode, I just wanted to come

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back to it, because there's is some hope here. When you're

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trying to navigate a new distance. I mean, you also get

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to determine whether or not you want to communicate to that

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other person that you're setting a new boundary. You're setting

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some new distance between you. Sometimes you'll get the hit

Karen Kenney: 00:11:52

hint, but other times, I've seen people come to me sad and upset

Karen Kenney: 00:11:56

and they say, I don't know what I've done, but my this person

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who I thought was my best friend has just disappeared from my

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life. They won't answer my texts. They won't answer my

Karen Kenney: 00:12:04

phone calls. I don't know what I did, and sometimes they just

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feel like, you know, they won't talk to me. And sometimes, look,

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I'm not saying it doesn't happen, that a person doesn't

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just up and, you know, just decide to break things off and

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try to start a new life or a new thing, it does happen. But from

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the other point of view, I often hear that people like I tried to

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tell you in seven ways till Sunday, and you just could not

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hear it, and you kept crossing my boundary, or you kept doing

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the same thing that I told you that I didn't like, etc, etc. So

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if these things are kind of happening in your life, meaning

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you're on the receiving end of somebody creating a new a new

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distance from you. You know, it's helpful to, kind of like,

Karen Kenney: 00:12:47

take a little moral inventory, as they say in in recovery

Karen Kenney: 00:12:51

programs, right? Take a fearless moral inventory and find out,

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you know, and just go through, I would say, don't, you don't have

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to obsess about it. But just go back and say, Hey, was there any

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time that I was unkind? Was there any time that I was not a

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good friend? Was it was there something I could have said or

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done or that I did, or did they ever say to me that they were

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upset with me? Sometimes you're going to have no idea why it's

Karen Kenney: 00:13:13

happening. Other times you might have a sneaking suspicion.

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Sometimes you might be afraid. You're like, oh shit, I know

Karen Kenney: 00:13:19

what I did. And at that point, you get to decide if you want to

Karen Kenney: 00:13:23

apologize or say, Hey, I feel like you've been really distant

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lately. Is there something that I did or that I said? Do you

Karen Kenney: 00:13:29

want to talk about it?

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But sometimes, look the fast, the best and fastest thing you

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can do is get out of dodge and just put a lot of distance

Karen Kenney: 00:13:37

between you and them, because whether and that's whether to do

Karen Kenney: 00:13:41

with, you know, and I don't, I don't use the word, you know,

Karen Kenney: 00:13:45

mental illness, in a way of like, Oh, if somebody has mental

Karen Kenney: 00:13:48

illness, you push them aside. But there are times when people

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are in their in their patterns of self destruction, or in their

Karen Kenney: 00:13:57

patterns of being destructive towards other people, or there's

Karen Kenney: 00:14:01

something going on where you're like, This is not a good time to

Karen Kenney: 00:14:03

be, and it doesn't I'm not talking like, abandon your

Karen Kenney: 00:14:05

people when they're going through a tough time. I'm just

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saying, and some of you, I know, you know what I'm talking about,

Karen Kenney: 00:14:10

there are just times when you have to say, I'm not going to

Karen Kenney: 00:14:13

sit around and, like, watch this. I don't want to be a part

Karen Kenney: 00:14:15

of this. I've been here done that. It's too painful, it's too

Karen Kenney: 00:14:18

much. And when you're ready to, like, get it together and have a

Karen Kenney: 00:14:21

real conversation, then we can talk. So there will be times

Karen Kenney: 00:14:24

when people will just completely cast you out of their hat.

Karen Kenney: 00:14:27

That's not what I'm saying, that you should or shouldn't do. I

Karen Kenney: 00:14:30

always say, Leave room. Leave room to reconcile if that's what

Karen Kenney: 00:14:33

you desire. And that's one of the things when you're setting

Karen Kenney: 00:14:37

the right distance, is you have to ask yourself, you know, what

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is going to be the consequence of me choosing this distance,

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and am I okay with it? And am I just choosing this for now, or

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am I open to reconciling? Am I open to a conversation where we

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both can try and hear each other so that we may get closer

Karen Kenney: 00:14:55

together again? And one of the great things about it's not

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always bad. You know, when somebody is setting new

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distances with each other, it's not always bad, because

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sometimes, from a distance, you can get a little bit more

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perspective. After you licked your wounds a little bit, or

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your ego wasn't so hurt anymore, or whatever the thing is, you

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can start to get a little bit different perspective and say,

Karen Kenney: 00:15:17

Yeah, you know what, I need to own that pot that was on me, or,

Karen Kenney: 00:15:20

you know what? Sometimes you get more clarity about like, you

Karen Kenney: 00:15:23

know what? I don't want this to work out. I have no interest in

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continuing this friendship or this relationship or whatever.

Karen Kenney: 00:15:30

So that distance can really give us clarity, and it can also help

Karen Kenney: 00:15:34

us to make that decision from a calm place, not when we're

Karen Kenney: 00:15:37

triggered, not when we're upset. And we can make it from a

Karen Kenney: 00:15:39

compassionate place, and after we've done some, you know, self

Karen Kenney: 00:15:43

inquiry with a curiosity and stuff, we can say, okay, yeah,

Karen Kenney: 00:15:47

this is where I've landed. This is how I feel. And now I just

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have to have the courage to communicate it or not. Some

Karen Kenney: 00:15:53

people don't feel the need to do it, and I know that I'm not

Karen Kenney: 00:15:56

really giving any definitive answers today. I'm just wanting

Karen Kenney: 00:15:58

to talk about this, because it's coming up again and again and

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again and again, with people about relationships falling

Karen Kenney: 00:16:04

apart, friendships falling apart, you know, like within

Karen Kenney: 00:16:08

family systems, like parents and children no longer talking

Karen Kenney: 00:16:11

anymore. Or, you know, this one's like, they won't let me

Karen Kenney: 00:16:13

see my grandbabies or whatever. Like we see it all over the

Karen Kenney: 00:16:16

place and and even in my own life, you know, there are times

Karen Kenney: 00:16:19

when I'm like, Oh, I just need to create some distance, because

Karen Kenney: 00:16:21

this is not going to end well. Going to end well, if I don't,

Karen Kenney: 00:16:23

and a lot of times it seems like maybe you're creating distance

Karen Kenney: 00:16:27

for your own mental sanity. And sometimes I'm like, No, trust

Karen Kenney: 00:16:31

me, I'm saving them for myself. Because what I would be, what I

Karen Kenney: 00:16:34

would say to them right now, if I just didn't care about being

Karen Kenney: 00:16:38

compassionate or loving, I don't think that we would, we would

Karen Kenney: 00:16:40

rebound from the words that would come out of my mouth. You

Karen Kenney: 00:16:43

know what I mean, Vicki with 2k from Lawrence, when she wants to

Karen Kenney: 00:16:45

grab the mic, it is best that I kind of, I always say that I

Karen Kenney: 00:16:48

just kind of moon walk out of the room a little bit and let

Karen Kenney: 00:16:50

there be a little bit of space. Because I, you know, if I really

Karen Kenney: 00:16:55

wanted to, it's not that hard for me to be mean. And I really

Karen Kenney: 00:16:58

try hard not to be mean, and I really try not to give into

Karen Kenney: 00:17:01

that. That part of me that wants to, you know, wants to just tell

Karen Kenney: 00:17:05

it like it is very directly. So I always say honesty without

Karen Kenney: 00:17:09

compassion is brutality, and I really don't feel like being

Karen Kenney: 00:17:12

brutal towards people. But sometimes me and my nervous

Karen Kenney: 00:17:14

system need a break from fucking nonsense. You know what I'm

Karen Kenney: 00:17:17

saying. So I don't know if this is helpful to you. I don't

Karen Kenney: 00:17:20

imagine that every single thing that comes out of my mouth is

Karen Kenney: 00:17:23

helpful all the time, but it is my hope. It is my hope that

Karen Kenney: 00:17:26

something that I share, you recognize yourself in it, or it

Karen Kenney: 00:17:30

resonates, or you can relate to it, and that somehow you could

Karen Kenney: 00:17:32

maybe use it and apply it in a way that makes your life better

Karen Kenney: 00:17:36

and helps to spread a little bit more love. And it might seem

Karen Kenney: 00:17:39

like how is finding the distance away from people, you know,

Karen Kenney: 00:17:43

helping us to find more love? And I said, you know, sometimes,

Karen Kenney: 00:17:46

you know all those things like oil and water and magnets repel

Karen Kenney: 00:17:49

and blah, blah, sometimes, even if your blood, even if you're a

Karen Kenney: 00:17:53

blood relative, it doesn't mean you're supposed to be friends

Karen Kenney: 00:17:55

your whole life. There are going to be times when morals, you

Karen Kenney: 00:17:59

know, your morals and your ethics and your beliefs, and you

Karen Kenney: 00:18:03

know whether it's political or whether it's just, you know, you

Karen Kenney: 00:18:07

don't agree on on certain things, certain behaviors,

Karen Kenney: 00:18:09

things that happen because people, people be peopling, and

Karen Kenney: 00:18:12

people hurt each other and betray each other all the time,

Karen Kenney: 00:18:15

and sometimes you just need to step back or step away for good.

Karen Kenney: 00:18:19

So I'm not here to tell you what your distances should be. I'm

Karen Kenney: 00:18:22

just here to support you in saying, like, I get it. I get it

Karen Kenney: 00:18:25

how sometimes you need to find that space.

Karen Kenney: 00:18:28

And I would just encourage you, though, to do it mindfully, to

Karen Kenney: 00:18:32

not do it reactionally. Like, do it. Like, make your choices when

Karen Kenney: 00:18:36

you and your nervous system have come back to a more calm and

Karen Kenney: 00:18:39

clear space, so that you know why you're choosing it, and

Karen Kenney: 00:18:42

you're not just like freaking out and having a hissy fit or a

Karen Kenney: 00:18:45

temper tantrum or a tizzy or whatever, a conniption fit, as

Karen Kenney: 00:18:47

we would say when we were kids, right? Just know that I'm making

Karen Kenney: 00:18:50

this decision with a clear mind. And you know, and again, you get

Karen Kenney: 00:18:54

to decide, maybe there's room for reparations. Maybe this is

Karen Kenney: 00:18:57

going to wash out on the other side after a little bit of time,

Karen Kenney: 00:19:00

and sometimes it's just not going to happen, because no

Karen Kenney: 00:19:03

matter how hard you try, it just feels like you are pushing

Karen Kenney: 00:19:06

something uphill that you are dragging so my friend KT and I

Karen Kenney: 00:19:09

talk about, it's like dragging dead carrots behind you on a

Karen Kenney: 00:19:11

dirty string. It's just like, I don't want to do this anymore.

Karen Kenney: 00:19:14

This this relationship is just, I'm just dragging it behind me,

Karen Kenney: 00:19:16

and it is so not attractive or fun or soothing, and it's

Karen Kenney: 00:19:20

exhausting and boring, and I'm over it. I'm over just banging

Karen Kenney: 00:19:23

my head against the wall, you know what I mean? So hopefully

Karen Kenney: 00:19:27

look, and I think we feel that way sometimes, just look at our

Karen Kenney: 00:19:30

government. Sometimes we feel that way, right like, I don't

Karen Kenney: 00:19:32

want to what is happening, like what is happening right now. So,

Karen Kenney: 00:19:37

yeah, just, I think I'm just sharing this from my heart to

Karen Kenney: 00:19:39

yours, so that you don't feel alone out there if you're

Karen Kenney: 00:19:42

struggling trying to make sense of some things, and you're just

Karen Kenney: 00:19:44

feeling like, you know, I told you guys I met, I met a guy the

Karen Kenney: 00:19:47

other day, and I said, Well, what are you gonna do when you

Karen Kenney: 00:19:49

retire? And he's like, move to the woods away from people and

Karen Kenney: 00:19:52

grow my hair long? And I thought it was really funny. I'm like,

Karen Kenney: 00:19:55

dude, dude. I know the feeling right? It's like, Cal gone, as

Karen Kenney: 00:19:58

we used to say when we were kids. Cal. Go and take me away.

Karen Kenney: 00:20:01

But here's the other thing, people, people can be so

Karen Kenney: 00:20:04

beautiful and so inspiring and so wonderful and so kind and

Karen Kenney: 00:20:08

compassionate, and they can also be infuriating and brutal and

Karen Kenney: 00:20:13

vicious and ridiculous and flabbergasting and whatever. And

Karen Kenney: 00:20:18

we are all often those things to each other, all of us. Nobody is

Karen Kenney: 00:20:22

exempt. I'm sure there are plenty of people that had to

Karen Kenney: 00:20:24

make some distance from me in my lifetime, and plenty of people

Karen Kenney: 00:20:28

I've had to, you

Karen Kenney: 00:20:29

know, create new distance from also, so none of us, none of

Karen Kenney: 00:20:32

this, get and none of us get out of this squeaky clean, you know

Karen Kenney: 00:20:35

what I mean, but for your own well being and your own mental

Karen Kenney: 00:20:38

health. But just Also, know, make sure that, because it can

Karen Kenney: 00:20:42

be really easy too, for your friends to just say things like,

Karen Kenney: 00:20:46

you should cut them off. You should tell them this. You

Karen Kenney: 00:20:48

should that wasn't nice. Blah, blah, look, you have to, at some

Karen Kenney: 00:20:52

point, be an adult and trust your own in a teacher and your

Karen Kenney: 00:20:55

own instincts, your own intuition. Yes, you can get the

Karen Kenney: 00:20:58

guidance and support of people who love you and also question

Karen Kenney: 00:21:02

like, why am I doing this? Am I withholding and am I doing this

Karen Kenney: 00:21:05

to be hurtful? Do I have an agenda, or is this what I feel

Karen Kenney: 00:21:10

like right now, with the information that I have, this is

Karen Kenney: 00:21:12

the best choice for me and my kids, or me and myself, or me

Karen Kenney: 00:21:16

and my family or whatever, that we just create a little distance

Karen Kenney: 00:21:19

here so you're not alone in this. You guys. Humaning is

Karen Kenney: 00:21:22

fucking hard, and stuff will be happening all the time, and

Karen Kenney: 00:21:26

you're not alone. And I see you and I hear you and I feel you,

Karen Kenney: 00:21:30

and I get you, I understand to the best of my capacity that I

Karen Kenney: 00:21:33

can and sometimes it's not always comfortable making these

Karen Kenney: 00:21:37

choices. Sometimes we do it and it doesn't feel great, and we

Karen Kenney: 00:21:41

feel guilty, and you might feel a little like, Oh, I feel like

Karen Kenney: 00:21:44

I'm judgy. This feels judgy and whatever, and they're not going

Karen Kenney: 00:21:47

to understand and they're not going to like it. And I'm like,

Karen Kenney: 00:21:50

Look, sometimes you can communicate your choice to them,

Karen Kenney: 00:21:53

and sometimes you can say, this is why I'm setting this

Karen Kenney: 00:21:55

boundary. This is what I'm doing. But sometimes people

Karen Kenney: 00:21:57

can't hear it. Sometimes people will just, you know, try to drag

Karen Kenney: 00:22:01

you into more drama and conversations that you don't

Karen Kenney: 00:22:04

want to have. But sometimes you do deserve you do owe people an

Karen Kenney: 00:22:07

explanation, and if they're able to hear it and you're able to

Karen Kenney: 00:22:11

talk to each other like loving and compassionate adults, it

Karen Kenney: 00:22:15

might be fruitful. You might find out some things and

Karen Kenney: 00:22:17

reconcile, and that'll be great. And sometimes it is just not

Karen Kenney: 00:22:21

going to happen. And like I said, I'm holding my hands up

Karen Kenney: 00:22:23

again, right right now. They're like, about four inches apart.

Karen Kenney: 00:22:26

Sometimes that's the right distance. And what I mean by

Karen Kenney: 00:22:28

that is that might stand for, we see each other once a month at

Karen Kenney: 00:22:32

Ma's house for Sunday dinner, right? It might go out a little

Karen Kenney: 00:22:36

bit wider, and it's like, yeah, we see each other at the family

Karen Kenney: 00:22:38

holidays. It might go out a little bit wider. It's like,

Karen Kenney: 00:22:41

yeah, we send each other a Christmas card, right? I mean,

Karen Kenney: 00:22:44

whatever it is, whatever the distance is, right? And

Karen Kenney: 00:22:48

sometimes you negotiate those distances, and sometimes one of

Karen Kenney: 00:22:51

you just just does it and you talk about it, and sometimes you

Karen Kenney: 00:22:55

do it and you don't talk about it, and sometimes you both just

Karen Kenney: 00:22:58

drift away from each other, and it just kind of fades off into

Karen Kenney: 00:23:02

the sunset. You know what I'm saying. So I hope this has been

Karen Kenney: 00:23:05

helpful in some way. Thank you so much for listening. Thank you

Karen Kenney: 00:23:07

so much for being here and wherever you go. Just do your

Karen Kenney: 00:23:11

darndest. Just do your real deal. Holyfield best, to leave

Karen Kenney: 00:23:16

the animals and the other people and yourself and the planet, the

Karen Kenney: 00:23:20

environment better than how you found it. Wherever you go, may

Karen Kenney: 00:23:24

you and your love and your energy and your presence and the

Karen Kenney: 00:23:28

distance that you choose be a blessing. Bye. Hey, thanks so

Karen Kenney: 00:23:34

much for listening to the show. I really love spending some time

Karen Kenney: 00:23:38

together. Now, if you dig the show or know someone that could

Karen Kenney: 00:23:41

benefit from this episode, please share it with them and

Karen Kenney: 00:23:45

help me to spread the good word and the love. And if you want to

Karen Kenney: 00:23:48

be in the know about all of my upcoming shenanigans, head on

Karen Kenney: 00:23:52

over to Karen kenney.com/sign up and join my list. It'll be

Karen Kenney: 00:23:58

wicked fun to stay in touch. Bye. You.